Kanadensiske författaren och journalisten Alain Roy intervjuas av Magnus Thorén. En korrupt, diktaturvurmande och kanske smått dement ledare i full färd med att dra ner sitt land i en ekonomisk, säkerhetspolitisk och diplomatisk avgrund. Så tecknas porträttet av USA:s president i boken Fallet Trump, nyligen översatt till svenska. Vad är det som talar för att presidenten faktiskt skulle kunna beskrivas som en ”amerikansk Putin”? Vad var det i så fall som ledde till att en majoritet av väljarna faktiskt utsåg honom till att leda landet två gånger om? Och vad är det som gör att Trump trots alla lögner och skandaler lyckas böja både det egna landets institutioner och delar av världen efter sin egen vilja?
1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:27,840 En korrupt, diktaturvurmande och möjligen också smått dement president
2 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:34,540 i full färd med att dra ner sitt land i en ekonomisk, säkerhetspolitisk och diplomatisk avgrund.
3 00:00:35,020 --> 00:00:42,480 Ungefär så tecknade den kanadensiske journalisten Alan Roy porträttet av USAs president i en ny bok.
4 00:00:43,020 --> 00:00:50,240 Vad är det för faktorer som han menar talar för att Donald Trump faktiskt kan beskrivas som en amerikansk Putin?
5 00:00:51,060 --> 00:00:56,580 Vad var det i så fall som ledde till att en majoritet av väljarna utsett honom att leda landet
6 00:00:56,580 --> 00:00:58,520 inte bara en utan två gånger?
7 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:04,660 Och vad är det som gör att Trump, trots alla varningar, alla lögner och skandaler
8 00:01:04,660 --> 00:01:12,160 faktiskt lyckas böja både det egna landets institutioner och delar av världen efter sin vilja?
9 00:01:12,700 --> 00:01:16,320 Gäst i fredagsintervjun, författaren och journalisten Alan Roy.
10 00:01:16,740 --> 00:01:18,420 Jag heter Magnus Thorén.
11 00:01:19,780 --> 00:01:23,620 Alan Roy, welcome to the Friday interview, fredagsintervjun.
12 00:01:24,020 --> 00:01:25,560 Thank you, thank you for having me.
13 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:33,400 How would you describe the relationship between Canada and the United States at this point?
14 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,700 Yeah, we can say that there has been a cold between the United States and Canada.
15 00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:44,740 Mainly because of the tariff wars that Trump has started.
16 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,400 We are supposed to have free trade between Canada and the United States.
17 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,400 But with this trade war, it's as if Trump is...
18 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,620 breaking up this agreement that we had.
19 00:01:58,460 --> 00:02:03,720 And so now lots of Canadians don't want to go anymore to the United States.
20 00:02:04,220 --> 00:02:07,220 Tourism has dropped by something like 30%.
21 00:02:07,220 --> 00:02:14,460 We don't sell anymore American liquors in our stores.
22 00:02:14,740 --> 00:02:16,000 So there's this...
23 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,020 Yeah, we can say there's this tension.
24 00:02:18,020 --> 00:02:22,980 And our prime minister, Mark Carney, you probably heard him in Switzerland.
25 00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:23,500 Yes.
26 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:25,540 Defending this new vision.
27 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:32,240 That medium-sized countries should unite against bigger countries who try to bully them.
28 00:02:33,020 --> 00:02:36,140 So it's a sort of...
29 00:02:36,140 --> 00:02:39,700 It's like a new world order we're getting in.
30 00:02:40,140 --> 00:02:44,840 And this is not only on the so-called political level.
31 00:02:45,020 --> 00:02:47,040 Also in everyday life.
32 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:53,740 Yes, as I said, people become reluctant to just go to the United States.
33 00:02:53,740 --> 00:02:54,740 We hear stories about...
34 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,800 people being annoyed at the customs and things like that.
35 00:03:00,340 --> 00:03:03,220 So some even say, oh, I'm scared.
36 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:04,160 They'll do something.
37 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:11,380 They'll go through my cellular phone and check what I'm writing online.
38 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:17,680 And so, yeah, it has changed in everyday life.
39 00:03:17,820 --> 00:03:22,160 When we go to the store, we check, is this product coming from the USA?
40 00:03:22,540 --> 00:03:23,840 Yes, okay, I'm not buying it.
41 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:24,700 So, yeah.
42 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,540 You mentioned Mark Carney.
43 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:30,900 He received a lot of praise, at least in Europe, after his speech
44 00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:33,580 at the World Economic Forum in Davos,
45 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:37,860 where he spoke about the new world order and how to manage Trump.
46 00:03:38,700 --> 00:03:42,320 And you say this speech was also received well in Canada.
47 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:44,000 I would say so.
48 00:03:44,460 --> 00:03:53,440 Because at the beginning, we felt that Carney wasn't having a strong enough position.
49 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,440 He seemed like he was...
50 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:56,720 He was making concessions.
51 00:03:57,140 --> 00:04:00,200 But I think he realized that these concessions were not working,
52 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:01,600 and not were doing anything.
53 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,560 Many people knew that from the start, but maybe he...
54 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,600 Some people think that if you give Trump what he wants,
55 00:04:10,020 --> 00:04:11,640 he's going to go easy on you.
56 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,080 But it's the contrary.
57 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,300 Because if you do that, he'll think that you're weak.
58 00:04:18,740 --> 00:04:20,760 And if you're weak, he'll ask for more.
59 00:04:21,300 --> 00:04:24,320 So you can't give Trump what he wants.
60 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:25,300 You have to...
61 00:04:25,300 --> 00:04:26,920 I think...
62 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,680 It's a question that everybody's asking.
63 00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:32,360 How can you deal with him? What should we do?
64 00:04:32,660 --> 00:04:36,920 I think it's impossible, really, to deal with this man,
65 00:04:37,060 --> 00:04:39,280 because his word doesn't mean anything.
66 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:41,160 And still you have to deal with him.
67 00:04:42,020 --> 00:04:44,960 But I think what Canada is doing now, they won't say it officially,
68 00:04:45,460 --> 00:04:46,900 but I think they're playing the clock.
69 00:04:47,460 --> 00:04:50,120 They're just waiting, because he wants to renegotiate
70 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,500 the trade deal between Canada and the United States.
71 00:04:53,220 --> 00:04:54,500 And I think...
72 00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:59,360 Canadians are just waiting for him to just go
73 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:00,640 before signing anything.
74 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,400 So maybe that's what we all have to do,
75 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:09,240 is just play the clock and wait.
76 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,880 Because it's not going very well for him these days.
77 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:18,500 I looked at the polls, recent polls today on the Washington Post,
78 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:20,340 and they're very bad.
79 00:05:21,980 --> 00:05:24,300 For example, on the cost of living,
80 00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:28,740 I think he has only 24% approval.
81 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,240 On the war in Iran, it's something like 30%.
82 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,240 So his numbers are very low.
83 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:41,180 And so we can expect that he will lose the midterm elections.
84 00:05:42,260 --> 00:05:46,160 Is there also pockets of support for Trump and his policies,
85 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,720 such as you mentioned the tariffs, among Canadians?
86 00:05:50,340 --> 00:05:54,420 And what do their best arguments sound like?
87 00:05:55,300 --> 00:06:00,000 If Canadians support Trump, no Canadian supports Trump.
88 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:00,480 No one?
89 00:06:00,540 --> 00:06:01,980 No one. Absolutely no one.
90 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,140 Because it hurts the Canadian economy.
91 00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:07,040 People are losing jobs right now because of that.
92 00:06:07,820 --> 00:06:10,600 Companies are in difficulties.
93 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:18,160 And so United States was the first economic partner of Canada.
94 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:24,720 Lots of businesses sell most of their products to the United States.
95 00:06:25,300 --> 00:06:27,920 But now we have to diversify.
96 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:29,480 We have to find other markets.
97 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,900 So even some persons who thought maybe before he was elected, re-elected,
98 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,320 yeah, maybe Trump is good in some ways or have some good ideas.
99 00:06:39,700 --> 00:06:40,840 There's none of them left.
100 00:06:42,780 --> 00:06:46,820 Maybe really on the right wing, radical right.
101 00:06:46,820 --> 00:06:49,900 Some people may like him.
102 00:06:51,940 --> 00:06:56,560 But I think every man who works,
103 00:06:56,580 --> 00:07:00,080 works in a company and cares about the economy of Canada,
104 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,580 nobody supports Trump, I would say.
105 00:07:02,580 --> 00:07:06,580 Your book, which has just been published in Swedish,
106 00:07:06,580 --> 00:07:09,580 is called Fallet Trump, The Trump Case.
107 00:07:09,580 --> 00:07:14,080 But the original title, I discovered, I believe, in French,
108 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,580 is Portrait of a Fraudster.
109 00:07:16,580 --> 00:07:20,580 How is Trump a fraudster?
110 00:07:20,580 --> 00:07:22,580 Yeah, or Portrait of an Imposter.
111 00:07:22,580 --> 00:07:23,580 Yeah.
112 00:07:23,580 --> 00:07:26,340 It's because Trump, all his life,
113 00:07:26,340 --> 00:07:30,340 has presented himself as someone that he is not.
114 00:07:30,340 --> 00:07:33,340 He has portrayed himself as a self-made man,
115 00:07:33,340 --> 00:07:35,340 self-made billionaire.
116 00:07:35,340 --> 00:07:43,340 But when you study the course of his financial career,
117 00:07:43,340 --> 00:07:48,340 we could say, we discovered that this is absolutely not true.
118 00:07:48,340 --> 00:07:51,340 Trump received, in fact, from his father,
119 00:07:51,340 --> 00:07:54,340 something like 500 million dollars.
120 00:07:54,340 --> 00:07:56,340 He always pretended that his father
121 00:07:56,340 --> 00:07:59,340 actually lent him, lent him one million.
122 00:07:59,340 --> 00:08:04,340 But we can see that's just one of the many, many lies that he said.
123 00:08:04,340 --> 00:08:13,340 And we also know that he had one bankruptcy after the other.
124 00:08:13,340 --> 00:08:16,340 At the end of the 1990s,
125 00:08:16,340 --> 00:08:20,340 Trump was completely ruined, according to himself.
126 00:08:20,340 --> 00:08:25,340 He was then worth minus 900 million dollars.
127 00:08:25,340 --> 00:08:28,340 So all the money that he had from his father,
128 00:08:28,340 --> 00:08:33,340 he just threw it all away with bad business decisions.
129 00:08:33,340 --> 00:08:36,340 And at that time, he was in his 50s.
130 00:08:36,340 --> 00:08:42,340 So this idea that Trump is a real estate tycoon
131 00:08:42,340 --> 00:08:44,340 is a complete fabrication.
132 00:08:44,340 --> 00:08:46,340 It's a complete fabrication.
133 00:08:46,340 --> 00:08:49,340 He's a rich father's boy.
134 00:08:49,340 --> 00:08:51,340 That's what he is, really.
135 00:08:51,340 --> 00:08:53,340 And a bad businessman.
136 00:08:53,340 --> 00:08:55,340 In some way, you could say that
137 00:08:55,340 --> 00:08:59,340 Trump is also maybe a fraudster then,
138 00:08:59,340 --> 00:09:03,340 but in some sense also politically completely open
139 00:09:03,340 --> 00:09:08,340 about his bragging, exaggerating, lying even,
140 00:09:08,340 --> 00:09:13,340 talking openly about planning revenge on his enemies,
141 00:09:13,340 --> 00:09:15,340 and so on and so on.
142 00:09:15,340 --> 00:09:18,340 Could you in one way say he's very honest?
143 00:09:18,340 --> 00:09:24,720 Yeah, sometimes he says transparently.
144 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,720 He says transparently what he wants to do.
145 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,720 Mainly when he's on the revenge mode.
146 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,720 When he wants to attack people.
147 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,720 But he's also someone who lies constantly.
148 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:43,720 The Washington Post during his first mandate in the White House,
149 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,720 they calculated the number of lies he was producing
150 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:53,720 and they came up for four years with a number like 30,537 lies.
151 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,720 Something like that.
152 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:56,720 Quite something.
153 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:01,720 So just in his official declarations,
154 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:03,720 he would produce like 20 lies a day.
155 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,720 So he's also someone who's constantly lying.
156 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,720 So yeah, sometimes when he's mad about someone,
157 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,720 he will say it.
158 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:19,720 But he's also someone who's always distorting facts
159 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,720 and saying untrue things.
160 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,720 Säger Alain Roy,
161 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,720 kanadensisk författare och journalist
162 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,720 och gäst i veckans fredagsintervjun.
163 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,720 One chapter in your book is called
164 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,720 America's Putin.
165 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,720 Would you say that Trump already is an American Putin
166 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,720 or on his way to become one?
167 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,720 Okay.
168 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,720 I think we have to distinguish two things.
169 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,720 There is what Trump wants.
170 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,720 And what Trump can do.
171 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,720 So what Trump wants, I think,
172 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:58,720 and I show it in the book,
173 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,720 he's a complete admirator of Putin.
174 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,720 He admires Putins wealth.
175 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:10,720 He fantasizes about having the same wealth.
176 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:11,720 We're talking,
177 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,720 we don't know how much money Putin has,
178 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,720 but some say it's at least 200 billion dollars
179 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,720 because he owns large parts of the Russian economy.
180 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:27,720 And Trump fantasizes to have this same wealth and power.
181 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:28,720 Because for Trump,
182 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:35,720 and here we're touching about his ego problem or obsession.
183 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:40,720 For him, having money means being a worthy individual.
184 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:41,720 So he's,
185 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,720 and it's an obsession for him to have money, more money.
186 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,720 Because for him, if you have money,
187 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,720 it means you're intelligent.
188 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:51,720 It means you have succeeded.
189 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,720 And if you don't, it means you're not intelligent.
190 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:55,720 So he needs it.
191 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,720 It's like a necessity for him.
192 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,720 So he admires Putin.
193 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:09,720 He would like to have the same kind of power.
194 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,720 But, and I think that's why he made,
195 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,720 he had all these fantasies of annexing Canada.
196 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,720 Because he made this so-called joke
197 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,720 that Canada should be the 51st state of the United States.
198 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,720 He repeated that over and over and over.
199 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,720 And that was very also insulting and annoying for Canadians.
200 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,720 Because Canadians don't want to be part of the United States.
201 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,720 Because we have a very different society.
202 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,720 I often say that Canada is like a European country in the Americas.
203 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:47,720 And really the Canadian society is completely different from the American one.
204 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:48,720 So in some aspect,
205 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,720 he wants to be like Putin.
206 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,720 Yeah, and of course.
207 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,720 And annexing Canada and also annexing Greenland
208 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,720 is to have a bigger country than Putin.
209 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,720 It looks very childish.
210 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,720 But that's how Trump thinks.
211 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,720 And that's what I try to show in the book.
212 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:15,720 Is how he has this very childish psychology in a way.
213 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,720 So Putin has the biggest goal.
214 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:19,720 I want to have the biggest country in the world.
215 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,720 I want to have a bigger country than Putin.
216 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:22,720 How to do that?
217 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:23,720 I should annex Canada.
218 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,720 I should annex Greenland.
219 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,720 Then I will have a bigger country.
220 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:33,720 He himself argues that it's because of national security, etc.
221 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,720 You don't buy that?
222 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:36,720 Absolutely not.
223 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,720 Because what Trump always thinks about himself
224 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,720 and about enriching himself.
225 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,720 I don't think he's really thinking about
226 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,720 the good of the United States really.
227 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,720 Because he's doing so many things
228 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,720 to destroy his own country.
229 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,720 The list, we could go down the list,
230 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,720 but he has done so many things
231 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,720 to hurt his own country.
232 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,720 Which is very paradoxical
233 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:04,720 because his slogan is
234 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,720 Make America Great Again.
235 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,720 But he keeps on attacking
236 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,720 the healthcare organizations,
237 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,720 the universities, the media,
238 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,720 all the foreign diplomats,
239 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,720 the diplomatic apparatus of the United States,
240 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,720 the relationships of the United States
241 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,720 with other allies and countries.
242 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,720 So what he is in fact doing
243 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,720 is destroying his country.
244 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,720 You quote, among others also,
245 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,720 Trump's former national security adviser,
246 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,720 John Bolton, as saying that
247 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,720 Trump doesn't have the brains
248 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,720 to become a dictator.
249 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,720 Would that suggest that he really wants
250 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,720 and aims to be one,
251 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,720 but he can't really go all the way?
252 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,720 I think Bolton is right.
253 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:59,720 And there is so many examples
254 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,720 of Trump's incompetence
255 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,720 and lack of knowledge
256 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,720 in history, geography,
257 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:12,720 political, geostrategic situation
258 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,720 and dynamics and everything.
259 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,720 So I think he's
260 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:18,720 absolutely right
261 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,720 that Trump doesn't have
262 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,720 the brains to do that.
263 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,720 But he is someone who has
264 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,720 this kind of lust for power
265 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,720 and he knows no limits.
266 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,720 So he's willing to do
267 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,720 a lot of things
268 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:45,720 to shake the system
269 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,720 and cross borders
270 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,720 and red lines.
271 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,720 And because he doesn't care
272 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,720 about the rules,
273 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:54,720 he doesn't care about
274 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,720 the American Constitution,
275 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,720 he doesn't care about the law.
276 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,720 He always had
277 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,720 a purely instrumental relationship
278 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:07,720 with the law.
279 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,720 The law is like a weapon.
280 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,720 He always accuses the Democrats
281 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,720 of weaponizing the justice system.
282 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,720 But that's what he always does.
283 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:18,720 What he's doing himself.
284 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,720 He's saying the others are doing it.
285 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,720 But he's the one weaponizing
286 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,720 the Department of Justice.
287 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,720 And how far would you say
288 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,720 that this development has gone
289 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,720 during this first year,
290 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,720 almost two years,
291 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,720 in office this time
292 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,720 when it comes to
293 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,720 free press, independent courts,
294 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,720 functioning multi-party system, etc?
295 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:50,160 I think in his second term
296 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,160 he moved very fast
297 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,160 as we saw.
298 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,160 A lot of people were surprised
299 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,160 by everything he was doing.
300 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,160 Every day there was a new action
301 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:07,160 that was really surprising
302 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,160 for everyone.
303 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,160 But I think now that
304 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,160 the midterms are approaching
305 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,160 and seeing that
306 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:21,160 these poll numbers are so low,
307 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,160 people, even in the MAGA movement
308 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,160 and the Republican Party,
309 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,160 are starting to see that
310 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,160 Trump is going towards defeat.
311 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,160 And what some analysts say
312 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,160 is that now the MAGA movement
313 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,160 and the Republican Party
314 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,160 have entered a new stage
315 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,160 which is to ask themselves
316 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,160 who's going to replace Trump?
317 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,160 So they have this expression
318 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,160 lame duck.
319 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,160 So he is approaching
320 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,160 I think this state of the lame duck.
321 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,160 So he's becoming a lame duck.
322 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,160 There's been a lot of warnings
323 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,160 about Trump has been called
324 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,160 or accused of being a fascist
325 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,160 and that democracy is really under threat
326 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,160 in the US.
327 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,160 But isn't that the case
328 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,160 that the US is still
329 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,160 as far as we can tell now
330 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:14,160 a country with a free press,
331 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,160 with independent courts,
332 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,160 a functioning democracy basically?
333 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,160 Has there been too much
334 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,160 worries around that?
335 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,730 Well, I don't think
336 00:18:30,730 --> 00:18:32,730 you can really worry too much
337 00:18:32,730 --> 00:18:34,730 because what he was doing
338 00:18:34,730 --> 00:18:35,730 was not acceptable.
339 00:18:35,730 --> 00:18:38,730 So it was, I think in my view,
340 00:18:38,730 --> 00:18:41,730 perfectly okay to denounce
341 00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:43,730 what he was doing.
342 00:18:43,730 --> 00:18:45,730 Um...
343 00:18:45,730 --> 00:18:48,730 Because if there is still democracy
344 00:18:48,730 --> 00:18:50,730 it's because people have resisted
345 00:18:50,730 --> 00:18:51,730 to Trump.
346 00:18:51,730 --> 00:18:53,730 If they had not
347 00:18:53,730 --> 00:18:55,730 maybe the situation would be much worse.
348 00:18:55,730 --> 00:18:57,730 So I think
349 00:18:59,730 --> 00:19:01,730 you know some
350 00:19:01,730 --> 00:19:03,730 before I started the book
351 00:19:05,730 --> 00:19:07,730 with my discussions with people
352 00:19:07,730 --> 00:19:09,730 you know some would say
353 00:19:09,730 --> 00:19:11,730 you know Trump is just like a buffoon
354 00:19:11,730 --> 00:19:13,730 we shouldn't be worried about him
355 00:19:13,730 --> 00:19:15,730 don't take him seriously.
356 00:19:15,730 --> 00:19:17,730 But we have seen
357 00:19:17,730 --> 00:19:19,730 the actions he has done
358 00:19:19,730 --> 00:19:21,730 and they have some real consequences
359 00:19:21,730 --> 00:19:23,730 in the lives of everybody.
360 00:19:23,730 --> 00:19:25,730 We see it now with
361 00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:27,730 the war in Iran
362 00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:29,730 and the price of gasoline.
363 00:19:29,730 --> 00:19:31,730 It has huge effects on
364 00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:33,730 his tariffs.
365 00:19:33,730 --> 00:19:35,730 Tariff wars have huge effects
366 00:19:35,730 --> 00:19:37,730 on people's lives.
367 00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:39,730 So I think we have to take him seriously
368 00:19:39,730 --> 00:19:41,730 and
369 00:19:41,730 --> 00:19:43,730 and if the system
370 00:19:43,730 --> 00:19:45,730 can resist him
371 00:19:45,730 --> 00:19:47,730 well
372 00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:49,730 it's a good thing
373 00:19:49,730 --> 00:19:51,730 because at
374 00:19:51,730 --> 00:19:53,730 the problem is that
375 00:19:53,730 --> 00:19:55,730 very often with Trump
376 00:19:55,730 --> 00:19:57,730 the way to hold him back
377 00:19:57,730 --> 00:19:59,730 is through the justice courts
378 00:19:59,730 --> 00:20:01,730 but the justice system
379 00:20:01,730 --> 00:20:03,730 it takes time.
380 00:20:03,730 --> 00:20:05,730 So we are in this period
381 00:20:05,730 --> 00:20:07,730 where the justice system
382 00:20:07,730 --> 00:20:09,730 hasn't had the time yet to
383 00:20:09,730 --> 00:20:11,730 well some of his
384 00:20:11,730 --> 00:20:13,730 actions have been stopped
385 00:20:13,730 --> 00:20:15,730 like for example
386 00:20:15,730 --> 00:20:17,730 the trade war
387 00:20:17,730 --> 00:20:19,730 the supreme court has declared that
388 00:20:19,730 --> 00:20:21,730 some tariffs were illegal
389 00:20:21,730 --> 00:20:23,730 but it took some months before that happened.
390 00:20:23,730 --> 00:20:25,730 And the administration
391 00:20:25,730 --> 00:20:27,730 is planning to go back with new arguments
392 00:20:27,730 --> 00:20:29,730 I think for
393 00:20:29,730 --> 00:20:31,730 maintaining the tariffs.
394 00:20:31,730 --> 00:20:33,730 Yeah and that's what he did
395 00:20:33,730 --> 00:20:35,730 and he imposed new tariffs
396 00:20:35,730 --> 00:20:37,730 that are even worse than before.
397 00:20:37,730 --> 00:20:39,730 So Trump is always
398 00:20:39,730 --> 00:20:41,730 someone who is doubling down
399 00:20:41,730 --> 00:20:43,730 if he
400 00:20:43,730 --> 00:20:45,730 suffers a defeat
401 00:20:45,730 --> 00:20:47,730 he will come back twice as hard
402 00:20:47,730 --> 00:20:49,730 and I think that's the way he is
403 00:20:49,730 --> 00:20:51,730 so I think we have no choice
404 00:20:51,730 --> 00:20:53,730 but to
405 00:20:53,730 --> 00:20:55,730 Trump is someone you have to fight constantly
406 00:20:55,730 --> 00:20:57,730 otherwise
407 00:20:57,730 --> 00:20:59,730 he could really
408 00:21:01,730 --> 00:21:03,730 endanger
409 00:21:03,730 --> 00:21:05,730 yes I think democracy
410 00:21:05,730 --> 00:21:07,730 in the United States
411 00:21:07,730 --> 00:21:09,730 I mean he
412 00:21:09,730 --> 00:21:11,730 had some lawsuits
413 00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:13,730 against some medias
414 00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:15,730 some people have been moved
415 00:21:15,730 --> 00:21:17,730 from TV shows
416 00:21:17,730 --> 00:21:19,730 and all that
417 00:21:19,730 --> 00:21:21,730 so the Kennedy Center
418 00:21:21,730 --> 00:21:23,730 for the Arts for example
419 00:21:23,730 --> 00:21:25,730 was completely destroyed by him
420 00:21:25,730 --> 00:21:27,730 so
421 00:21:27,730 --> 00:21:29,730 I think he can do damage
422 00:21:29,730 --> 00:21:31,730 really, real damage
423 00:21:31,730 --> 00:21:33,730 Is there still
424 00:21:33,730 --> 00:21:35,730 a risk
425 00:21:35,730 --> 00:21:37,730 if I'm talking about this comparison
426 00:21:37,730 --> 00:21:39,730 with Putin for example
427 00:21:39,730 --> 00:21:41,730 is it a risk
428 00:21:41,730 --> 00:21:43,730 that that is taking it
429 00:21:43,730 --> 00:21:45,730 a little bit too far
430 00:21:45,730 --> 00:21:47,730 I mean Trump has been the subject of several
431 00:21:47,730 --> 00:21:49,730 assassination attempts for example
432 00:21:49,730 --> 00:21:51,730 and Putin is
433 00:21:51,730 --> 00:21:53,730 a suspected war criminal
434 00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:55,730 and an autocrat
435 00:21:55,730 --> 00:21:59,780 is there a problem there?
436 00:21:59,780 --> 00:22:01,780 Well like I was saying
437 00:22:01,780 --> 00:22:03,780 there is what Trump wants
438 00:22:03,780 --> 00:22:05,780 and what Trump can do
439 00:22:05,780 --> 00:22:07,780 I think he cannot
440 00:22:07,780 --> 00:22:09,780 become a Putin because the American system
441 00:22:09,780 --> 00:22:11,780 won't authorize it
442 00:22:11,780 --> 00:22:13,780 but in his head
443 00:22:13,780 --> 00:22:15,780 I think that's truly what he wants to be
444 00:22:15,780 --> 00:22:17,780 I mean in his own
445 00:22:17,780 --> 00:22:19,780 fantasy Trump world
446 00:22:19,780 --> 00:22:21,780 that's what he wants to be
447 00:22:21,780 --> 00:22:23,780 kind of a king
448 00:22:23,780 --> 00:22:25,780 yeah and he has made over and over jokes
449 00:22:25,780 --> 00:22:27,780 about it
450 00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:29,780 he has used the language of
451 00:22:29,780 --> 00:22:31,780 fascist dictators
452 00:22:31,780 --> 00:22:33,780 calling
453 00:22:33,780 --> 00:22:35,780 immigrants vermin
454 00:22:35,780 --> 00:22:37,780 saying they would poison
455 00:22:37,780 --> 00:22:39,780 the blood of the country
456 00:22:39,780 --> 00:22:41,780 you know it's kind of a rhetoric
457 00:22:41,780 --> 00:22:43,780 that's not acceptable
458 00:22:43,780 --> 00:22:45,780 and
459 00:22:45,780 --> 00:22:47,780 so
460 00:22:47,780 --> 00:22:49,780 I think we can say
461 00:22:49,780 --> 00:22:51,780 that he wants to be
462 00:22:51,780 --> 00:22:53,780 a dictator but probably
463 00:22:53,780 --> 00:22:55,780 he won't be able to do that
464 00:22:55,780 --> 00:22:57,780 but I think we have to say that
465 00:22:57,780 --> 00:22:59,780 because it is just a fact
466 00:23:01,780 --> 00:23:03,780 In your book you describe
467 00:23:03,780 --> 00:23:05,780 how you attend one of Trumps
468 00:23:05,780 --> 00:23:07,780 famous rallies
469 00:23:07,780 --> 00:23:09,780 you put on a MAGA cap to blend in
470 00:23:09,780 --> 00:23:11,780 with the audience
471 00:23:11,780 --> 00:23:13,780 and as I read it and understand it
472 00:23:13,780 --> 00:23:15,780 the experience is somewhat shocking
473 00:23:15,780 --> 00:23:17,780 to you
474 00:23:17,780 --> 00:23:19,780 why?
475 00:23:19,780 --> 00:23:21,780 Well because Trump rallies
476 00:23:21,780 --> 00:23:23,780 are really like
477 00:23:23,780 --> 00:23:25,780 there's something
478 00:23:25,780 --> 00:23:27,780 truly religious
479 00:23:27,780 --> 00:23:29,780 it's like the MAGA is a cult
480 00:23:29,780 --> 00:23:31,780 we can say
481 00:23:31,780 --> 00:23:33,780 and it's all based around
482 00:23:33,780 --> 00:23:35,780 the cult of Trumps personality
483 00:23:35,780 --> 00:23:37,780 and
484 00:23:37,780 --> 00:23:39,780 these events are
485 00:23:39,780 --> 00:23:41,780 I would say completely surreal
486 00:23:41,780 --> 00:23:43,780 and so that's why to
487 00:23:43,780 --> 00:23:45,780 show
488 00:23:45,780 --> 00:23:47,780 the kind of atmosphere
489 00:23:47,780 --> 00:23:49,780 that
490 00:23:49,780 --> 00:23:51,780 you find in these rallies
491 00:23:51,780 --> 00:23:53,780 I had to use
492 00:23:53,780 --> 00:23:55,780 I would say my writer's pen
493 00:23:55,780 --> 00:23:57,780 instead of my journalistic pen
494 00:23:57,780 --> 00:23:59,780 and I was influenced here by
495 00:23:59,780 --> 00:24:01,780 the Italian writer
496 00:24:01,780 --> 00:24:03,780 Curzio Malaparte
497 00:24:03,780 --> 00:24:05,780 who wrote
498 00:24:05,780 --> 00:24:07,780 novels
499 00:24:07,780 --> 00:24:09,780 at the end of the second world war
500 00:24:09,780 --> 00:24:11,780 and he has this dark humor
501 00:24:11,780 --> 00:24:13,780 and surrealism
502 00:24:13,780 --> 00:24:15,780 to describe
503 00:24:15,780 --> 00:24:17,780 what was happening
504 00:24:17,780 --> 00:24:19,780 and I
505 00:24:19,780 --> 00:24:21,780 used the kind of same literary
506 00:24:21,780 --> 00:24:23,780 tools to describe what happens
507 00:24:23,780 --> 00:24:25,780 in Trump rallies which are
508 00:24:25,780 --> 00:24:27,780 completely over the top
509 00:24:27,780 --> 00:24:29,780 outrageous, unreal
510 00:24:29,780 --> 00:24:31,780 and the most
511 00:24:31,780 --> 00:24:33,780 strange
512 00:24:33,780 --> 00:24:35,780 segment of the rally
513 00:24:35,780 --> 00:24:37,780 was one where they showed this video
514 00:24:37,780 --> 00:24:39,780 proclaiming
515 00:24:39,780 --> 00:24:41,780 that Trump
516 00:24:41,780 --> 00:24:43,780 was created by God to save
517 00:24:43,780 --> 00:24:45,780 the planet
518 00:24:45,780 --> 00:24:47,780 so we see that
519 00:24:47,780 --> 00:24:49,780 in these rallies
520 00:24:49,780 --> 00:24:51,780 politics and religion
521 00:24:51,780 --> 00:24:53,780 are completely mixed together
522 00:24:53,780 --> 00:24:55,780 and they present Trump
523 00:24:55,780 --> 00:24:57,780 as the savior of the people
524 00:24:57,780 --> 00:24:59,780 we saw recently
525 00:24:59,780 --> 00:25:01,780 he portrayed himself as Jesus
526 00:25:01,780 --> 00:25:03,780 so it's the same
527 00:25:03,780 --> 00:25:05,780 same rhetoric
528 00:25:05,780 --> 00:25:07,780 same techniques of manipulations
529 00:25:07,780 --> 00:25:09,780 so that's what I wanted to see
530 00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:11,780 with my own eyes
531 00:25:11,780 --> 00:25:13,780 manipulating
532 00:25:13,780 --> 00:25:15,780 the people that vote for him
533 00:25:15,780 --> 00:25:17,780 Did you get some kind of
534 00:25:17,780 --> 00:25:19,780 understanding
535 00:25:19,780 --> 00:25:21,780 around
536 00:25:21,780 --> 00:25:23,780 why people
537 00:25:23,780 --> 00:25:25,780 do like him so much
538 00:25:25,780 --> 00:25:27,780 and do vote for him
539 00:25:27,780 --> 00:25:29,780 and do support him
540 00:25:29,780 --> 00:25:31,780 regardless of the amount of lies
541 00:25:31,780 --> 00:25:33,780 he's telling or
542 00:25:33,780 --> 00:25:35,780 exaggerations or etc
543 00:25:35,780 --> 00:25:37,780 It's because he
544 00:25:37,780 --> 00:25:39,780 uses
545 00:25:39,780 --> 00:25:41,780 as I was saying
546 00:25:41,780 --> 00:25:43,780 an image of himself as a savior
547 00:25:43,780 --> 00:25:45,780 and to do that he will
548 00:25:45,780 --> 00:25:47,780 also do this strange thing
549 00:25:47,780 --> 00:25:49,780 which is scare the people
550 00:25:49,780 --> 00:25:51,780 so he
551 00:25:51,780 --> 00:25:53,780 would say
552 00:25:53,780 --> 00:25:55,780 for example
553 00:25:55,780 --> 00:25:57,780 the rally I watched was in the
554 00:25:57,780 --> 00:25:59,780 state of New Hampshire
555 00:25:59,780 --> 00:26:01,780 which is not far from where I live
556 00:26:01,780 --> 00:26:03,780 in Quebec
557 00:26:03,780 --> 00:26:05,780 and he would say to the people of
558 00:26:05,780 --> 00:26:07,780 New Hampshire
559 00:26:07,780 --> 00:26:09,780 you have the state where
560 00:26:09,780 --> 00:26:11,780 the drug problem
561 00:26:11,780 --> 00:26:13,780 is the highest in the United States
562 00:26:13,780 --> 00:26:15,780 it's in New Hampshire that
563 00:26:15,780 --> 00:26:17,780 the price of gasoline is the highest
564 00:26:17,780 --> 00:26:19,780 in the United States
565 00:26:19,780 --> 00:26:21,780 and these are total lies
566 00:26:21,780 --> 00:26:23,780 it's absolutely not true
567 00:26:23,780 --> 00:26:25,780 he even said
568 00:26:25,780 --> 00:26:27,780 it's in New Hampshire that the price of gas
569 00:26:27,780 --> 00:26:29,780 is the highest in the world
570 00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:31,780 which is absolutely untrue
571 00:26:31,780 --> 00:26:33,780 so he scares people
572 00:26:33,780 --> 00:26:35,780 like that
573 00:26:35,780 --> 00:26:37,780 but then just after he says
574 00:26:37,780 --> 00:26:39,780 but I'm going to save you
575 00:26:39,780 --> 00:26:41,780 I'm going to stop
576 00:26:41,780 --> 00:26:43,780 the immigrants from
577 00:26:43,780 --> 00:26:45,780 Mexico who are invading our country
578 00:26:45,780 --> 00:26:47,780 I will protect you from them
579 00:26:47,780 --> 00:26:49,780 so he scares people
580 00:26:49,780 --> 00:26:51,780 and at the same time he says
581 00:26:51,780 --> 00:26:53,780 I'm going to protect you
582 00:26:53,780 --> 00:26:55,780 and one of the most outrageous things
583 00:26:55,780 --> 00:26:57,780 in this rally
584 00:26:57,780 --> 00:26:59,780 was when he was talking about
585 00:26:59,780 --> 00:27:01,780 the third world war
586 00:27:01,780 --> 00:27:03,780 so he was saying
587 00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:05,780 with Joe Biden there's going to be a third world war
588 00:27:05,780 --> 00:27:07,780 so he's scaring
589 00:27:07,780 --> 00:27:09,780 people with a war like that
590 00:27:09,780 --> 00:27:11,780 but he's saying
591 00:27:11,780 --> 00:27:13,780 vote for me and there won't be a third world war
592 00:27:13,780 --> 00:27:15,780 but that for me
593 00:27:15,780 --> 00:27:17,780 is something that's very
594 00:27:17,780 --> 00:27:21,020 strange
595 00:27:21,020 --> 00:27:23,020 and scary
596 00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:25,020 because why is he talking about
597 00:27:25,020 --> 00:27:27,020 the third world war
598 00:27:27,020 --> 00:27:29,020 it's like this notion is circulating inside his head
599 00:27:29,020 --> 00:27:31,020 and as we know
600 00:27:31,020 --> 00:27:33,020 he's always projecting on others
601 00:27:33,020 --> 00:27:35,020 what he's thinking himself
602 00:27:35,020 --> 00:27:37,020 so
603 00:27:37,020 --> 00:27:39,020 we're seeing that Trump likes to
604 00:27:39,020 --> 00:27:41,020 do these
605 00:27:41,020 --> 00:27:43,020 military operations
606 00:27:43,020 --> 00:27:45,020 he went in Venezuela
607 00:27:45,020 --> 00:27:47,020 he went in Iran
608 00:27:47,020 --> 00:27:49,020 he's talking about Cuba
609 00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:51,020 I think he's going to come back with the idea of
610 00:27:51,020 --> 00:27:53,020 Greenland
611 00:27:53,020 --> 00:27:55,020 I think he won't let that go
612 00:27:55,020 --> 00:27:57,020 he'll come back again with this
613 00:27:57,020 --> 00:27:59,020 the big piece of ice
614 00:27:59,020 --> 00:28:01,020 that he's talking about
615 00:28:01,020 --> 00:28:03,020 Greenland
616 00:28:03,020 --> 00:28:05,020 yeah but he says there are rare earth minerals
617 00:28:05,020 --> 00:28:07,020 worth a fortune
618 00:28:07,020 --> 00:28:09,020 and he wants to enrich
619 00:28:09,020 --> 00:28:11,020 himself with that maybe
620 00:28:11,020 --> 00:28:13,020 and also as I was saying
621 00:28:13,020 --> 00:28:15,020 it's to have a bigger country than Putin
622 00:28:15,020 --> 00:28:17,020 but he is
623 00:28:17,020 --> 00:28:19,020 also maybe a symptom
624 00:28:19,020 --> 00:28:21,020 of something
625 00:28:21,020 --> 00:28:23,020 that has been failing before him
626 00:28:23,020 --> 00:28:25,020 politically
627 00:28:25,020 --> 00:28:27,020 or because everyone
628 00:28:27,020 --> 00:28:29,020 who's voted for him
629 00:28:29,020 --> 00:28:31,020 he won the popular vote last time
630 00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:33,020 he's been elected president twice
631 00:28:33,020 --> 00:28:35,020 something
632 00:28:35,020 --> 00:28:37,020 the electorate or the people
633 00:28:37,020 --> 00:28:39,020 who supports him
634 00:28:39,020 --> 00:28:41,020 they want
635 00:28:41,020 --> 00:28:43,020 Trump
636 00:28:43,020 --> 00:28:45,020 they want his policies
637 00:28:45,020 --> 00:28:47,020 they want this guy to run America
638 00:28:47,020 --> 00:28:49,020 right?
639 00:28:49,020 --> 00:28:51,020 and why?
640 00:28:51,020 --> 00:28:53,020 United States as we know
641 00:28:53,020 --> 00:28:55,020 is a very divided country
642 00:28:55,020 --> 00:28:57,020 he had the popular vote but
643 00:28:57,020 --> 00:28:59,020 not by a very big margin
644 00:28:59,020 --> 00:29:01,020 it was
645 00:29:01,020 --> 00:29:03,020 some hundred thousand votes
646 00:29:03,020 --> 00:29:05,020 I don't have the exact
647 00:29:05,020 --> 00:29:07,020 but still he won it
648 00:29:07,020 --> 00:29:09,020 Democrats have made mistakes
649 00:29:09,020 --> 00:29:11,020 in their campaign
650 00:29:11,020 --> 00:29:13,020 Putin was a mistake
651 00:29:13,020 --> 00:29:15,020 he should have had just one term
652 00:29:15,020 --> 00:29:17,020 wanting a second term
653 00:29:17,020 --> 00:29:19,020 was the wrong thing to do
654 00:29:19,020 --> 00:29:21,020 so
655 00:29:21,020 --> 00:29:23,020 the democratic party has
656 00:29:23,020 --> 00:29:25,020 their own responsibility
657 00:29:25,020 --> 00:29:27,020 all these culture wars
658 00:29:27,020 --> 00:29:29,020 also have
659 00:29:29,020 --> 00:29:31,020 I think
660 00:29:31,020 --> 00:29:33,020 distracted people from
661 00:29:33,020 --> 00:29:35,020 more important issues
662 00:29:35,020 --> 00:29:37,020 these issues are not unimportant
663 00:29:37,020 --> 00:29:39,020 but you know
664 00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:41,020 some economic
665 00:29:41,020 --> 00:29:43,020 issues should have
666 00:29:43,020 --> 00:29:45,020 been talked
667 00:29:45,020 --> 00:29:47,020 more or been
668 00:29:47,020 --> 00:29:49,020 focused more
669 00:29:49,020 --> 00:29:51,020 of the democratic party
670 00:29:51,020 --> 00:29:53,020 as someone like Bernie Sanders
671 00:29:53,020 --> 00:29:55,020 yeah
672 00:29:55,020 --> 00:29:57,020 he always puts up
673 00:29:57,020 --> 00:29:59,020 talks about this point
674 00:29:59,020 --> 00:30:01,020 so
675 00:30:01,020 --> 00:30:03,020 yeah
676 00:30:03,020 --> 00:30:05,020 people
677 00:30:05,020 --> 00:30:07,020 half of the country
678 00:30:07,020 --> 00:30:09,020 yes have voted Trump
679 00:30:09,020 --> 00:30:11,020 because they believed his rhetoric
680 00:30:11,020 --> 00:30:13,020 is going to make America great again
681 00:30:13,020 --> 00:30:15,020 he
682 00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:17,020 he
683 00:30:17,020 --> 00:30:19,020 convinced people
684 00:30:19,020 --> 00:30:21,020 that he could
685 00:30:21,020 --> 00:30:23,020 make this dream
686 00:30:23,020 --> 00:30:25,020 come true
687 00:30:25,020 --> 00:30:27,020 but
688 00:30:27,020 --> 00:30:29,020 we see that
689 00:30:29,020 --> 00:30:31,020 this is not happening in everyday life
690 00:30:31,020 --> 00:30:33,020 and people
691 00:30:33,020 --> 00:30:35,020 in his own
692 00:30:35,020 --> 00:30:37,020 MAGA movement
693 00:30:37,020 --> 00:30:39,020 in the republican party
694 00:30:39,020 --> 00:30:41,020 are seeing that also because
695 00:30:41,020 --> 00:30:43,020 as I was saying
696 00:30:43,020 --> 00:30:45,020 around 25, 30, 35%
697 00:30:45,020 --> 00:30:47,020 so that means that
698 00:30:47,020 --> 00:30:49,020 there's a big portion
699 00:30:49,020 --> 00:30:51,020 of his own movement who's seeing that
700 00:30:51,020 --> 00:30:53,020 he's not delivering the goods
701 00:30:53,020 --> 00:30:55,020 he was promising
702 00:30:55,020 --> 00:30:57,020 Tucker Carlson for example
703 00:30:57,020 --> 00:30:59,020 is now saying
704 00:30:59,020 --> 00:31:01,020 apologizing for supporting Trump
705 00:31:01,020 --> 00:31:03,020 yeah exactly
706 00:31:03,020 --> 00:31:05,020 Trump has
707 00:31:05,020 --> 00:31:07,020 also sometimes been described
708 00:31:07,020 --> 00:31:09,020 as the result of a kind of
709 00:31:09,020 --> 00:31:11,020 liberalism that went
710 00:31:11,020 --> 00:31:13,020 too far to some extent
711 00:31:13,020 --> 00:31:15,020 for example when it
712 00:31:15,020 --> 00:31:17,020 comes to free trade
713 00:31:17,020 --> 00:31:19,020 identity politics
714 00:31:19,020 --> 00:31:21,020 that you can call it
715 00:31:21,020 --> 00:31:23,020 or the issue of migration
716 00:31:23,020 --> 00:31:25,020 that some kind of political elite
717 00:31:25,020 --> 00:31:27,020 went too far with a liberal project
718 00:31:27,020 --> 00:31:29,020 in the west and that resulted
719 00:31:29,020 --> 00:31:31,020 in Trump who said
720 00:31:31,020 --> 00:31:33,020 we don't have to have the borders open
721 00:31:33,020 --> 00:31:35,020 we don't have to buy everything from China
722 00:31:35,020 --> 00:31:37,020 we can reindustrialize this country
723 00:31:37,020 --> 00:31:39,020 and so on
724 00:31:39,020 --> 00:31:41,020 is that a valid
725 00:31:41,020 --> 00:31:43,020 point?
726 00:31:43,020 --> 00:31:45,020 I would say yes
727 00:31:45,020 --> 00:31:47,020 partially but there are
728 00:31:47,020 --> 00:31:49,020 different factors
729 00:31:49,020 --> 00:31:51,020 because
730 00:31:51,020 --> 00:31:53,020 you know
731 00:31:53,020 --> 00:31:55,020 Trump doesn't have
732 00:31:55,020 --> 00:31:57,020 like
733 00:31:57,020 --> 00:31:59,020 real political
734 00:31:59,020 --> 00:32:01,020 ideas
735 00:32:01,020 --> 00:32:03,020 or constant ones
736 00:32:03,020 --> 00:32:05,020 he's someone who changes his mind
737 00:32:05,020 --> 00:32:07,020 on many things
738 00:32:07,020 --> 00:32:09,020 for one time
739 00:32:09,020 --> 00:32:11,020 he was
740 00:32:11,020 --> 00:32:13,020 he was not against abortion
741 00:32:13,020 --> 00:32:15,020 now he is
742 00:32:15,020 --> 00:32:17,020 you know he's someone
743 00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:19,020 in his life
744 00:32:19,020 --> 00:32:21,020 he identified as a democrat
745 00:32:21,020 --> 00:32:23,020 then a republican
746 00:32:23,020 --> 00:32:25,020 then an independent
747 00:32:25,020 --> 00:32:27,020 then a democrat
748 00:32:27,020 --> 00:32:29,020 then a republican
749 00:32:29,020 --> 00:32:31,020 so I think he's someone
750 00:32:31,020 --> 00:32:33,020 who's basically really
751 00:32:33,020 --> 00:32:35,020 using the
752 00:32:35,020 --> 00:32:37,020 republican party
753 00:32:37,020 --> 00:32:39,020 and
754 00:32:39,020 --> 00:32:41,020 for his own
755 00:32:41,020 --> 00:32:43,020 good
756 00:32:43,020 --> 00:32:45,020 I think
757 00:32:45,020 --> 00:32:47,020 it would be a mistake
758 00:32:47,020 --> 00:32:49,020 to think that Trump really has
759 00:32:49,020 --> 00:32:51,020 political ideas
760 00:32:51,020 --> 00:32:53,020 he's someone who's
761 00:32:53,020 --> 00:32:55,020 using the system
762 00:32:55,020 --> 00:32:57,020 for himself
763 00:32:57,020 --> 00:32:59,020 and his family
764 00:32:59,020 --> 00:33:01,020 and
765 00:33:01,020 --> 00:33:03,020 an example of that
766 00:33:03,020 --> 00:33:05,020 is really the widespread
767 00:33:05,020 --> 00:33:07,020 corruption that is going on
768 00:33:07,020 --> 00:33:09,020 right now in the white house
769 00:33:09,020 --> 00:33:11,020 Trump in many ways
770 00:33:11,020 --> 00:33:13,020 is enriching himself
771 00:33:13,020 --> 00:33:15,020 with the presidency
772 00:33:15,020 --> 00:33:17,020 which is completely illegal
773 00:33:17,020 --> 00:33:19,020 and forbidden by the
774 00:33:19,020 --> 00:33:21,020 American constitution
775 00:33:21,020 --> 00:33:23,020 he takes gifts from foreign governments
776 00:33:23,020 --> 00:33:25,020 he's
777 00:33:25,020 --> 00:33:27,020 he has this
778 00:33:27,020 --> 00:33:29,020 board of peace
779 00:33:29,020 --> 00:33:31,020 for example where you have to pay
780 00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:33,020 yeah one billion to be a member of
781 00:33:33,020 --> 00:33:35,020 and this board of peace
782 00:33:35,020 --> 00:33:37,020 he's the private president of that organization
783 00:33:37,020 --> 00:33:39,020 for life
784 00:33:39,020 --> 00:33:41,020 and that organization
785 00:33:41,020 --> 00:33:43,020 is a private one
786 00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:45,020 which has an offshore account
787 00:33:45,020 --> 00:33:47,020 so it's an organization
788 00:33:47,020 --> 00:33:49,020 where the money in fact
789 00:33:49,020 --> 00:33:51,020 goes into Trump's pockets
790 00:33:51,020 --> 00:33:53,020 and Trump has asked
791 00:33:53,020 --> 00:33:55,020 that the American government
792 00:33:55,020 --> 00:33:57,020 give 10 billion dollars
793 00:33:57,020 --> 00:33:59,020 to that organization
794 00:33:59,020 --> 00:34:01,020 he's suing the
795 00:34:01,020 --> 00:34:03,020 internal revenue service
796 00:34:03,020 --> 00:34:05,020 for 10 billion dollars too
797 00:34:05,020 --> 00:34:07,020 and he's suing
798 00:34:07,020 --> 00:34:09,020 the department of justice
799 00:34:09,020 --> 00:34:11,020 for I think
800 00:34:11,020 --> 00:34:13,020 240 million dollars
801 00:34:13,020 --> 00:34:15,020 claiming that the FBI
802 00:34:15,020 --> 00:34:17,020 did him wrong by
803 00:34:17,020 --> 00:34:19,020 having inquiries on him
804 00:34:19,020 --> 00:34:21,020 for his wrong doing
805 00:34:21,020 --> 00:34:23,020 and but now he's
806 00:34:23,020 --> 00:34:25,020 so he's suing
807 00:34:25,020 --> 00:34:27,020 the government but he's now
808 00:34:27,020 --> 00:34:29,020 in the government so if he
809 00:34:29,020 --> 00:34:31,020 tells the department of justice
810 00:34:31,020 --> 00:34:33,020 to approve
811 00:34:33,020 --> 00:34:35,020 his own
812 00:34:35,020 --> 00:34:37,020 lawsuit against
813 00:34:37,020 --> 00:34:39,020 he could
814 00:34:39,020 --> 00:34:41,020 enrich himself
815 00:34:41,020 --> 00:34:43,020 for you know 240 million dollars
816 00:34:43,020 --> 00:34:45,020 with the public
817 00:34:45,020 --> 00:34:47,020 treasury and
818 00:34:47,020 --> 00:34:49,020 so
819 00:34:49,020 --> 00:34:51,020 he's really someone who's trying
820 00:34:51,020 --> 00:34:53,020 to profit from
821 00:34:53,020 --> 00:34:55,020 his power
822 00:34:55,020 --> 00:34:57,020 as president
823 00:34:57,020 --> 00:34:59,020 and if that is the case
824 00:34:59,020 --> 00:35:01,020 and I don't question you on that
825 00:35:01,020 --> 00:35:03,020 why doesn't more
826 00:35:03,020 --> 00:35:05,020 republican senators
827 00:35:05,020 --> 00:35:07,020 heads of government
828 00:35:07,020 --> 00:35:09,020 high ranking military or police officers
829 00:35:09,020 --> 00:35:11,020 protest
830 00:35:11,020 --> 00:35:13,020 or refuse to carry out his
831 00:35:13,020 --> 00:35:15,020 orders or the
832 00:35:15,020 --> 00:35:17,020 administrations
833 00:35:17,020 --> 00:35:19,020 orders I think that is one of the
834 00:35:19,020 --> 00:35:21,020 most shocking thing is
835 00:35:21,020 --> 00:35:23,020 how the
836 00:35:23,020 --> 00:35:25,020 republican establishment
837 00:35:25,020 --> 00:35:27,020 let Trump do all
838 00:35:27,020 --> 00:35:29,020 that he does
839 00:35:29,020 --> 00:35:31,020 could it be that
840 00:35:31,020 --> 00:35:33,020 they also want this
841 00:35:33,020 --> 00:35:35,020 to happen as the voters
842 00:35:35,020 --> 00:35:37,020 they actually voted and
843 00:35:37,020 --> 00:35:39,020 work for someone that they think
844 00:35:39,020 --> 00:35:41,020 in the end of the day maybe it goes a little bit
845 00:35:41,020 --> 00:35:43,020 too far maybe it's lying maybe it's
846 00:35:43,020 --> 00:35:45,020 exaggerating but this
847 00:35:45,020 --> 00:35:47,020 is the right way for the country to
848 00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:49,020 to take
849 00:35:49,020 --> 00:35:51,020 I think
850 00:35:51,020 --> 00:35:53,020 the reason the republicans don't do
851 00:35:53,020 --> 00:35:55,020 anything first is because
852 00:35:55,020 --> 00:35:57,020 he has
853 00:35:57,020 --> 00:35:59,020 performed a sort of purge
854 00:35:59,020 --> 00:36:01,020 inside the party
855 00:36:01,020 --> 00:36:03,020 and when someone
856 00:36:03,020 --> 00:36:05,020 opposes him in his own
857 00:36:05,020 --> 00:36:07,020 party he
858 00:36:07,020 --> 00:36:09,020 intimidates them he bullies
859 00:36:09,020 --> 00:36:11,020 them he gives money to the
860 00:36:11,020 --> 00:36:13,020 opponents so they lose
861 00:36:13,020 --> 00:36:15,020 so I think
862 00:36:15,020 --> 00:36:17,020 it's
863 00:36:17,020 --> 00:36:19,020 much more violent
864 00:36:19,020 --> 00:36:21,020 dynamic really
865 00:36:21,020 --> 00:36:23,020 based on bullying and intimidation
866 00:36:23,020 --> 00:36:25,020 and Trump always talks about
867 00:36:25,020 --> 00:36:27,020 loyalty he wants people
868 00:36:27,020 --> 00:36:29,020 around him to be perfectly
869 00:36:29,020 --> 00:36:31,020 loyal and if you're not
870 00:36:31,020 --> 00:36:33,020 everyone around him
871 00:36:33,020 --> 00:36:35,020 gets fired
872 00:36:35,020 --> 00:36:37,020 one day or the other
873 00:36:37,020 --> 00:36:39,020 because
874 00:36:39,020 --> 00:36:41,020 very frequently
875 00:36:41,020 --> 00:36:43,020 if you work for Trump
876 00:36:43,020 --> 00:36:45,020 he's going to ask you to do something which is
877 00:36:45,020 --> 00:36:47,020 illegal and then you have a conscious
878 00:36:49,020 --> 00:36:51,020 problem what are you going
879 00:36:51,020 --> 00:36:53,020 to do are you going to break the law
880 00:36:53,020 --> 00:36:55,020 or will you lose your job because you're not
881 00:36:55,020 --> 00:36:57,020 doing what Trump asks you and
882 00:36:57,020 --> 00:36:59,020 many people like
883 00:36:59,020 --> 00:37:01,020 for example his own lawyer
884 00:37:01,020 --> 00:37:03,020 Michael Cohen he ended up
885 00:37:03,020 --> 00:37:05,020 in jail because he did
886 00:37:05,020 --> 00:37:07,020 what Trump asked him to do
887 00:37:07,020 --> 00:37:09,020 and Trump turned on him
888 00:37:09,020 --> 00:37:11,020 even though he went to jail for
889 00:37:11,020 --> 00:37:13,020 Trump so Trump
890 00:37:13,020 --> 00:37:15,020 has no
891 00:37:15,020 --> 00:37:17,020 problem burning
892 00:37:17,020 --> 00:37:19,020 people around him and that's
893 00:37:19,020 --> 00:37:21,020 what we see very often
894 00:37:21,020 --> 00:37:23,020 if you work for Trump it's going to
895 00:37:23,020 --> 00:37:25,020 end bad for you so
896 00:37:25,020 --> 00:37:27,020 I don't think
897 00:37:27,020 --> 00:37:29,020 really that the
898 00:37:29,020 --> 00:37:31,020 Republican party necessarily
899 00:37:31,020 --> 00:37:33,020 approves of everything he
900 00:37:33,020 --> 00:37:35,020 does I think people are just scared of him
901 00:37:35,020 --> 00:37:37,020 But that was
902 00:37:37,020 --> 00:37:39,020 more or less the case in his first
903 00:37:39,020 --> 00:37:41,020 term as well he was firing people
904 00:37:41,020 --> 00:37:43,020 here and there he actually
905 00:37:43,020 --> 00:37:45,020 got out of the White House
906 00:37:45,020 --> 00:37:47,020 and many people thought he was gone
907 00:37:47,020 --> 00:37:49,020 politically but he came back
908 00:37:49,020 --> 00:37:51,020 and he took over practically the
909 00:37:51,020 --> 00:37:53,020 whole party and now the administration
910 00:37:53,020 --> 00:37:55,020 how is that possible
911 00:37:55,020 --> 00:37:57,020 if people
912 00:37:57,020 --> 00:37:59,020 voters
913 00:37:59,020 --> 00:38:01,020 officers
914 00:38:01,020 --> 00:38:03,020 lawyers doesn't want it
915 00:38:03,020 --> 00:38:05,020 to happen well he took control
916 00:38:05,020 --> 00:38:07,020 of the party and everybody
917 00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:09,020 who opposed someone must
918 00:38:09,020 --> 00:38:11,020 a lot of people must have agreed that
919 00:38:11,020 --> 00:38:13,020 that was the right thing to happen
920 00:38:13,020 --> 00:38:15,020 I think they wanted power
921 00:38:15,020 --> 00:38:17,020 so they accepted that
922 00:38:17,020 --> 00:38:19,020 in order to get power
923 00:38:19,020 --> 00:38:21,020 to be in office
924 00:38:21,020 --> 00:38:23,020 and
925 00:38:23,020 --> 00:38:25,020 in my view that's
926 00:38:25,020 --> 00:38:27,020 a very sad thing
927 00:38:27,020 --> 00:38:29,020 because it's like people
928 00:38:29,020 --> 00:38:31,020 don't they will
929 00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:36,500 forget moral
930 00:38:36,500 --> 00:38:38,500 principles just to get power
931 00:38:38,500 --> 00:38:40,500 and I think that's what happened with
932 00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:42,500 Donald Trump
933 00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:44,500 and I think
934 00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:46,500 good people in the Republican Party
935 00:38:46,500 --> 00:38:48,500 a lot of them just left
936 00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:50,500 because it was just
937 00:38:50,500 --> 00:38:52,500 not possible to
938 00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:54,500 say what they felt
939 00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:56,500 or meant inside the party
940 00:38:56,500 --> 00:38:58,500 so he changed the party
941 00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:00,500 but now as you said
942 00:39:00,500 --> 00:39:02,500 with Dr. Carlson
943 00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:04,500 or others
944 00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:06,500 they're starting to think about
945 00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:08,500 the post-Trump period
946 00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:10,500 so
947 00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:12,500 what we can expect
948 00:39:12,500 --> 00:39:14,500 is that there are going to be
949 00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:16,500 a lot of inner
950 00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:18,500 conflicts
951 00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:20,500 and fights about the different
952 00:39:20,500 --> 00:39:22,500 factions because
953 00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:24,500 more than one people want to
954 00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:26,500 take over after Trump
955 00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:28,500 but who will it be
956 00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:30,500 so I think it's going to be
957 00:39:30,500 --> 00:39:32,500 pretty messy in the next months
958 00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:34,500 And who are you betting on?
959 00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:36,500 Well
960 00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:38,500 maybe it doesn't really matter
961 00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:40,500 because I think the Democrats are going to
962 00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:42,500 win in the midterm elections
963 00:39:52,500 --> 00:40:00,350 Speaking about
964 00:40:00,350 --> 00:40:02,350 the
965 00:40:02,350 --> 00:40:04,350 world post-Trump
966 00:40:04,350 --> 00:40:06,350 Trump, he turns 80
967 00:40:06,350 --> 00:40:08,350 in just a little bit over a month
968 00:40:08,350 --> 00:40:10,350 and even if it doesn't happen now
969 00:40:10,350 --> 00:40:12,350 he probably won't be in politics
970 00:40:12,350 --> 00:40:14,350 for much longer
971 00:40:14,350 --> 00:40:16,350 purely due to his age
972 00:40:16,350 --> 00:40:18,350 What's next
973 00:40:18,350 --> 00:40:20,350 after Trump
974 00:40:20,350 --> 00:40:25,070 in the USA?
975 00:40:25,070 --> 00:40:27,070 Well
976 00:40:27,070 --> 00:40:29,070 it's a
977 00:40:29,070 --> 00:40:31,070 it's a question I asked
978 00:40:31,070 --> 00:40:33,070 when I was in Paris
979 00:40:33,070 --> 00:40:35,070 talking about the French version
980 00:40:35,070 --> 00:40:37,070 the original version of the book
981 00:40:37,070 --> 00:40:39,070 and there was this American professor
982 00:40:39,070 --> 00:40:41,070 from the American
983 00:40:41,070 --> 00:40:43,070 University in Paris
984 00:40:43,070 --> 00:40:45,070 who was there and I thought
985 00:40:45,070 --> 00:40:47,070 and I offered this
986 00:40:47,070 --> 00:40:49,070 hypothesis if
987 00:40:49,070 --> 00:40:51,070 once Trump leaves
988 00:40:51,070 --> 00:40:53,070 maybe the United States will go back
989 00:40:53,070 --> 00:40:55,070 to what they were before Trump
990 00:40:55,070 --> 00:40:57,070 and his answer
991 00:40:57,070 --> 00:40:59,070 was no
992 00:40:59,070 --> 00:41:01,070 that won't happen
993 00:41:01,070 --> 00:41:03,070 because we're in
994 00:41:03,070 --> 00:41:05,070 such a divided country
995 00:41:05,070 --> 00:41:07,070 a broken up country
996 00:41:07,070 --> 00:41:09,070 and there's so much divisions
997 00:41:09,070 --> 00:41:11,070 between people
998 00:41:11,070 --> 00:41:13,070 that I think
999 00:41:13,070 --> 00:41:15,070 the United States will
1000 00:41:15,070 --> 00:41:17,070 have to go through
1001 00:41:17,070 --> 00:41:19,070 a big period of reconstruction
1002 00:41:19,070 --> 00:41:21,070 it
1003 00:41:21,070 --> 00:41:23,070 it won't go back
1004 00:41:23,070 --> 00:41:25,070 to what it was like immediately
1005 00:41:25,070 --> 00:41:27,070 and we can see it with
1006 00:41:27,070 --> 00:41:29,070 all the
1007 00:41:29,070 --> 00:41:31,070 America's relationship
1008 00:41:31,070 --> 00:41:33,070 with other countries
1009 00:41:33,070 --> 00:41:35,070 some
1010 00:41:35,070 --> 00:41:37,070 relationships have been
1011 00:41:37,070 --> 00:41:39,070 really damaged
1012 00:41:39,070 --> 00:41:41,070 we see it in Canada
1013 00:41:41,070 --> 00:41:43,070 and
1014 00:41:43,070 --> 00:41:45,070 we are now trying to
1015 00:41:45,070 --> 00:41:47,070 diversify our economy
1016 00:41:47,070 --> 00:41:49,070 and getting more dependent on China
1017 00:41:49,070 --> 00:41:51,070 maybe
1018 00:41:51,070 --> 00:41:53,070 I don't think
1019 00:41:53,070 --> 00:41:55,070 we want to become dependent
1020 00:41:55,070 --> 00:41:57,070 we want to do more trade with Europe
1021 00:41:57,070 --> 00:41:59,070 with India
1022 00:41:59,070 --> 00:42:01,070 with Brazil, with Mexico
1023 00:42:01,070 --> 00:42:03,070 so
1024 00:42:03,070 --> 00:42:05,070 I think
1025 00:42:05,070 --> 00:42:07,070 the United States
1026 00:42:07,070 --> 00:42:09,070 will have
1027 00:42:09,070 --> 00:42:11,070 have lost
1028 00:42:11,070 --> 00:42:13,070 credibility
1029 00:42:13,070 --> 00:42:15,070 because of Trump
1030 00:42:15,070 --> 00:42:17,070 and you can
1031 00:42:17,070 --> 00:42:19,070 break a relationship very fast
1032 00:42:19,070 --> 00:42:21,070 but to reconstruct it
1033 00:42:21,070 --> 00:42:23,070 it takes time
1034 00:42:23,070 --> 00:42:25,070 and I think it will take time
1035 00:42:25,070 --> 00:42:27,070 for the United States
1036 00:42:27,070 --> 00:42:29,070 to rebuild trust
1037 00:42:29,070 --> 00:42:31,070 with Canada
1038 00:42:31,070 --> 00:42:33,070 and I think the European countries too
1039 00:42:33,070 --> 00:42:35,070 Do you think the MAGA movement
1040 00:42:35,070 --> 00:42:37,070 and Trumpism
1041 00:42:37,070 --> 00:42:39,070 if there is one
1042 00:42:39,070 --> 00:42:41,070 is here to stay
1043 00:42:41,070 --> 00:42:43,070 and also will
1044 00:42:43,070 --> 00:42:45,070 be present in the future
1045 00:42:45,070 --> 00:42:47,070 in other countries
1046 00:42:47,070 --> 00:42:49,070 in Europe for example
1047 00:42:49,070 --> 00:42:51,070 Well for Trumpism to stay
1048 00:42:51,070 --> 00:42:53,070 I think one of his children
1049 00:42:53,070 --> 00:42:55,070 would have to be
1050 00:42:55,070 --> 00:42:57,070 as charismatic as him
1051 00:42:57,070 --> 00:42:59,070 but
1052 00:42:59,070 --> 00:43:01,070 it's obvious that his sons
1053 00:43:01,070 --> 00:43:03,070 or his daughter
1054 00:43:03,070 --> 00:43:05,070 don't have what it takes
1055 00:43:05,070 --> 00:43:07,070 to
1056 00:43:07,070 --> 00:43:09,070 take
1057 00:43:09,070 --> 00:43:11,070 to prolong
1058 00:43:11,070 --> 00:43:13,070 Trumpism
1059 00:43:13,070 --> 00:43:15,070 and the MAGA movement
1060 00:43:15,070 --> 00:43:17,070 while it's kind of imploding
1061 00:43:17,070 --> 00:43:19,070 also because we see
1062 00:43:19,070 --> 00:43:21,070 Marjorie Taylor Greene
1063 00:43:21,070 --> 00:43:23,070 is another example
1064 00:43:23,070 --> 00:43:25,070 she was very
1065 00:43:25,070 --> 00:43:27,070 and she's talking again
1066 00:43:27,070 --> 00:43:29,070 there's also all this Epstein file
1067 00:43:29,070 --> 00:43:31,070 discussion that keeps on
1068 00:43:31,070 --> 00:43:33,070 dragging that
1069 00:43:33,070 --> 00:43:35,070 is very
1070 00:43:35,070 --> 00:43:37,070 annoying for the MAGA movement
1071 00:43:39,070 --> 00:43:41,070 so I don't know
1072 00:43:41,070 --> 00:43:43,070 it's unclear that
1073 00:43:43,070 --> 00:43:45,070 how this is going to unfold
1074 00:43:45,070 --> 00:43:47,070 something JD Vance
1075 00:43:47,070 --> 00:43:49,070 maybe is the next in line
1076 00:43:49,070 --> 00:43:51,070 but
1077 00:43:51,070 --> 00:43:53,070 he's not a very charismatic leader
1078 00:43:53,070 --> 00:43:55,070 so
1079 00:43:55,070 --> 00:43:57,070 time will tell
1080 00:43:57,070 --> 00:43:59,070 my guess is that
1081 00:43:59,070 --> 00:44:01,070 the political pendulum
1082 00:44:01,070 --> 00:44:03,070 is going to go on the Democrats
1083 00:44:03,070 --> 00:44:05,070 side for the next election
1084 00:44:05,070 --> 00:44:07,070 and
1085 00:44:07,070 --> 00:44:09,070 but
1086 00:44:09,070 --> 00:44:11,070 I think
1087 00:44:11,070 --> 00:44:13,070 for their own good the Americans
1088 00:44:13,070 --> 00:44:15,070 should try to
1089 00:44:15,070 --> 00:44:18,380 do something
1090 00:44:18,380 --> 00:44:20,380 about all
1091 00:44:20,380 --> 00:44:22,380 their political divisions
1092 00:44:22,380 --> 00:44:24,380 which are so deep
1093 00:44:24,380 --> 00:44:26,380 and you know people
1094 00:44:26,380 --> 00:44:28,380 in families don't talk to each other
1095 00:44:28,380 --> 00:44:30,380 because of that
1096 00:44:30,380 --> 00:44:32,380 so it's not just like
1097 00:44:32,380 --> 00:44:34,380 okay you're center right
1098 00:44:34,380 --> 00:44:36,380 you're center left
1099 00:44:36,380 --> 00:44:38,380 then we can politely discuss
1100 00:44:38,380 --> 00:44:40,380 it's much deeper than that
1101 00:44:40,380 --> 00:44:42,380 people just can't talk to each other
1102 00:44:42,380 --> 00:44:44,380 because they
1103 00:44:44,380 --> 00:44:46,380 so there are a lot of wounds
1104 00:44:46,380 --> 00:44:48,380 and
1105 00:44:48,380 --> 00:44:50,380 so going back to this American professor
1106 00:44:50,380 --> 00:44:52,380 in Paris that's what he was
1107 00:44:52,380 --> 00:44:54,380 telling me
1108 00:44:54,380 --> 00:44:56,380 the divisions are so painful and deep
1109 00:44:56,380 --> 00:44:58,380 that it will take
1110 00:44:58,380 --> 00:45:00,380 a long time before
1111 00:45:00,380 --> 00:45:02,380 I think
1112 00:45:02,380 --> 00:45:04,380 they
1113 00:45:04,380 --> 00:45:06,380 reach
1114 00:45:06,380 --> 00:45:08,380 a more
1115 00:45:08,380 --> 00:45:10,380 positive atmosphere
1116 00:45:10,380 --> 00:45:12,380 or dynamic
1117 00:45:12,380 --> 00:45:14,380 Will democracy in the
1118 00:45:14,380 --> 00:45:16,380 US survive
1119 00:45:16,380 --> 00:45:19,980 the Trump era?
1120 00:45:19,980 --> 00:45:21,980 I hope so
1121 00:45:21,980 --> 00:45:23,980 if I had to
1122 00:45:23,980 --> 00:45:25,980 guess I would say yes
1123 00:45:27,980 --> 00:45:29,980 and I think
1124 00:45:29,980 --> 00:45:31,980 when Trump will leave
1125 00:45:31,980 --> 00:45:33,980 because he will
1126 00:45:33,980 --> 00:45:35,980 because of age
1127 00:45:35,980 --> 00:45:37,980 because of his illness
1128 00:45:37,980 --> 00:45:39,980 illnesses also
1129 00:45:39,980 --> 00:45:41,980 that he hides from the public
1130 00:45:41,980 --> 00:45:43,980 so sooner or later
1131 00:45:43,980 --> 00:45:45,980 he will leave
1132 00:45:45,980 --> 00:45:47,980 and I think
1133 00:45:47,980 --> 00:45:49,980 the situation will
1134 00:45:49,980 --> 00:45:51,980 somehow pacify
1135 00:45:51,980 --> 00:45:53,980 a bit
1136 00:45:53,980 --> 00:45:55,980 and in the long run
1137 00:45:55,980 --> 00:45:57,980 let's say in 10 or 20 years
1138 00:45:57,980 --> 00:45:59,980 is there a possibility
1139 00:45:59,980 --> 00:46:01,980 that we for example in Sweden
1140 00:46:01,980 --> 00:46:03,980 and in Canada will look back
1141 00:46:03,980 --> 00:46:05,980 and say about Trump
1142 00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:07,980 how lucky
1143 00:46:07,980 --> 00:46:09,980 for us that he arrived
1144 00:46:09,980 --> 00:46:11,980 it made us take more care of our own
1145 00:46:11,980 --> 00:46:13,980 military and defense
1146 00:46:13,980 --> 00:46:15,980 he made us take care of our own industry
1147 00:46:15,980 --> 00:46:17,980 and our
1148 00:46:17,980 --> 00:46:19,980 self-dependence
1149 00:46:19,980 --> 00:46:21,980 or that we are not so dependent on the
1150 00:46:21,980 --> 00:46:23,980 US or China or whoever
1151 00:46:23,980 --> 00:46:25,980 thanks for Trump
1152 00:46:25,980 --> 00:46:27,980 is there a possibility?
1153 00:46:27,980 --> 00:46:29,980 Well
1154 00:46:29,980 --> 00:46:31,980 it could be
1155 00:46:31,980 --> 00:46:33,980 an ironical way
1156 00:46:33,980 --> 00:46:35,980 of putting things
1157 00:46:35,980 --> 00:46:37,980 because that's not what he wants
1158 00:46:37,980 --> 00:46:39,980 I mean it's like an
1159 00:46:39,980 --> 00:46:41,980 involuntary effect
1160 00:46:41,980 --> 00:46:43,980 of his actions
1161 00:46:43,980 --> 00:46:45,980 I think we could have reached that without
1162 00:46:45,980 --> 00:46:47,980 maybe without Trump
1163 00:46:47,980 --> 00:46:49,980 like Europe taking more care
1164 00:46:49,980 --> 00:46:51,980 of its defense
1165 00:46:51,980 --> 00:46:53,980 maybe Europe could have done that
1166 00:46:53,980 --> 00:46:55,980 without Trumpism
1167 00:46:55,980 --> 00:46:57,980 it happened also already after
1168 00:46:57,980 --> 00:46:59,980 when Putin invaded Ukraine
1169 00:46:59,980 --> 00:47:01,980 of course
1170 00:47:01,980 --> 00:47:03,980 and in Sweden that had a big
1171 00:47:03,980 --> 00:47:05,980 effect
1172 00:47:05,980 --> 00:47:07,980 because you joined NATO
1173 00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:09,980 of course exactly
1174 00:47:09,980 --> 00:47:11,980 but still
1175 00:47:11,980 --> 00:47:13,980 sometimes history turns
1176 00:47:13,980 --> 00:47:15,980 in mysterious ways
1177 00:47:15,980 --> 00:47:17,980 so to say
1178 00:47:17,980 --> 00:47:19,980 would it be that Trump in the end
1179 00:47:19,980 --> 00:47:21,980 is good also for
1180 00:47:21,980 --> 00:47:23,980 democracy in the world
1181 00:47:23,980 --> 00:47:25,980 like a democratic shake up
1182 00:47:27,980 --> 00:47:29,980 it would be the positive way
1183 00:47:29,980 --> 00:47:31,980 of seeing things
1184 00:47:31,980 --> 00:47:35,680 but I still think
1185 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:37,680 that he has done more bad
1186 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:39,680 than good
1187 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,680 truly he's not doing that
1188 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,680 to bring
1189 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:45,680 more democracy
1190 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,680 that's not what he wants
1191 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,680 so if he
1192 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,680 has that effect
1193 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,680 it's because
1194 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,680 we're opposing him
1195 00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:57,680 he's presenting a negative
1196 00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,680 option that we refuse
1197 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,680 so
1198 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,680 yeah
1199 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,680 if we can't thank someone
1200 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,680 for that
1201 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:09,680 maybe
1202 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,680 but still
1203 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,680 it's not something
1204 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:15,680 that we should admire
1205 00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,680 Alright
1206 00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,680 thank you for having me
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Skapad: 15 maj 2026